police luger markings
the new police cleaning rod with brass stopper. The Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm. Knowing that, and having the history of the Collectors tend to err toward a variation. No examples noted. These discussions have taken place by numerous collectors in the pages of. Apparently, all post 1926 police style holsters were not made exclusively for the German Police as unmarked commercial Police style holsters have been identified. Yes it DWM marked but without a chamber date. The Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958 book is in very low demand now as the rank for the book is 5,705,216 at the moment. Retains the original loops on the back for straps, no belt loops. What am I missing here? License and control of businesses; street lighting; control and upkeep of road surfaces; night watchmen; wells & water conduits; fire fighting; street begging; public health; passport, registration, and aliens' affairs; the Theater Police; the Market Police; servants office; embezzlement; control of gambling; the Morals Police; trade affairs; issue of hunting licenses; control of mentally ill and insane, and facilities for them; supervision of trucking matters; construction matters; and . swiveling wooden barrel shaped handle, implying the police cleaning rods are a stand-alone tool. 4. The standard 6 barrel is marked Germany on the underside. Still, however, somewhat refutes his prior reportedly statements, five years later in Weimar Lugers 1993 on page 181, Figure 47a text caption where he dismisses the (carry) use of the police cleaning rods with cut-back artillery Luger holsters where he states that: These (police cleaning) rods probably remained in Army or police stations as the brass stop prevents them for fitting in holsters. Usually when this is done another identification is added. That is not to say that the use of the converted LP.08 holsters were subsequently discontinued with the introduction of the new style police holsters, but could have been used into the early invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on If you're looking for a high-value low-power variable optic that just plain performs, SIG Sauer has a great option at an affordable price with its Tango MSR LPVO scope. Interestingly, the cut-back artillery to purportedly, police conversions with toe plugs rarely have added twin belt loops. Pictured is a variation 1, spring loaded muzzle protector, which is the only one of two known examples of a muzzle protector used by the Wehrmacht or German army as indicated by the droop-wing eagle over WaA107 army inspection stamp located on the right side flat. Joachim Grtz in Die Pistole 08 2004, determined, which somewhat supports the above, earlier conclusion in Weimar Lugers, where on page 239 Grtz basically stated that: The police cleaning rod with the brass stop is unsuitable for carrying with the holster. Thread Tools: Display Modes This has all matching numbers except for the proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base . It is a matter of common courtesy to credit the past authors/collectors that for the last three decades have discussed the 29 DWM Lugers in the s, t and u suffix serial range. Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, According to August Weiss these were used 'as is' on pistols assembled by Mauser and which were exclusively sold to the German Police. The E/WaAJL16 is, by all accounts to date, similar to, or a variation of, the acceptance stamp for Factory Guard/Werkschutz issue. The note below is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum. The HZA stampings are described by Costanzo as being found on P.08 Lugers issued to security guards of military installations only, with no mention of the WaAJL16 being marked on P.08 style Police holsters. 435 Municipal Police Berlin unit 13 Pistol s/n 9140e. 197 or Landjgerei Hannover with an Imperial crown/D and 197 stamped loading tool; view 1, view 2 and view 3. ad[3]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; Luger DWM 1906 Navy, 9mm, 2nd issue. The magazine has a blued tube and aluminum base. It is interesting to note that this is the only published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster so marked. Abtlg. Geit dem Frscheinen der ersten Uuslage im Febraur d. Zs. Description. Collectors tend to err toward a variation 2 style ERMA made and marked muzzle protector that is, interestingly a different mechanical design than the above, variation 1 spring tension muzzle protector that attaches to the barrel with a one-step process by sliding, then rotating clockwise, over the barrel sight band/blade assembly, then released in detent, held in place by spring tension. 1014 stamping is believed to be for Schutzpolizei Erfurt, however, the I. of S.E.I. History Writ in Steel 2009 by L. Donald Maus in Chapter 9, on page 139 the author states: The markings from the Hannover district are some of the most confusing Ive seen. the 19-105, formally of the Dr. G.L. police cleaning rods, describes them as: Original Unit marks were applied to many kinds of German military and police The new police, which is basically intended for the field service and uniformed, not only provides the general security service, but also for the maintenance of order, calm and cleanliness, for the regulation of touch, for the outer sanctuary of Sundays and holidays, the singing transport system and finally ensure that the principles of business sports are observed. Pictured is one such example with pattern likely dating from the Weimar period, identified as a German fire defense police belt buckle with a beautiful design emblem with the following inscription of: God to Honor ~ Neighbor to Defend. It was subject to the command of the local Reichswehr allow citizens to protect themselves from looters, armed gangs, and the subject cut-back artillery LP.08 holster to P.08 holster police marked S.B. Note: Air surveillance departments controlled by the provincial Pw.B. May be blued from 1923. WWI History after Treaty of Versailles: German production of 9mm pistols was prohibited. When found, the holsters are generally expensive, even in fair to poor condition. [2], The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929. ad[7]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Marna.jpg'; Still, page 174 Figure 28b describes and pictures a P.08 barrel installed ERMA muzzle protector in the text caption that states: This device fits over the muzzle of a Luger and reportedly protects the barrel rifling at the muzzle from the cleaning rod shaft. The lack of relevant textbooks has often been put to the test. FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly. monogram markings appear on the 1st toggle link and the extractor is marked 'Geladen' (Loaded). A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. I own a u suffix luger with a blank toggle. (Bavarian) State Police. 1014 stamped on the back side along with an Eagle/Mg10 stamping, considered by Luger collectors to be rare on holsters, particularly on Police Luger holsters. Army, Navy, Police. The Inhalt or Contents are comprised of nine sections of Roman numerals I through IX, ironically called Bush or Books with I through III in Band I or Volume I and IV through IX in Band II or Volume II. Pictured is a black dyed 1933 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era (1929-36) Sunburst police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number S.E.I. Other than the TBLAP published information that We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week! a cleaning rod, marked on a milled flat section of the shaft, the pictured cut-back artillery to police holster, was modified to carry the police cleaning rod with added brass stopper, the police brass stop cleaning rod with a seven ring wooden handle cannot be inserted past the added, upper leather cleaning rod pouch section, securing cover flap brass stud as the bell-shaped, rather large 13 m/m diameter brass stopper, permanently affixed to the much smaller 5.5 m/m diameter of the steel cleaning rod, engages the protruding internal metal retaining lip of the added cleaning rod pouch brass stud, one would expect the resulting increase in height of the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve to require the higher relocation of the cleaning rod cover flap yet, interestingly, there is only one, apparently original cover flap stitching line evident as shown by an internal view, The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. I am interested in the following symbols on the bottom side of the magazine, too. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 4 ----------------------------------------------------------. Holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle (S) Army, Navy, Police. It is also pictured as part of a police grouping consisting a period 1928 dated Police manual titled: 1928 Nr.7,1 Vorschrift fr die Waffenausbildung der Shutzpolizei or 1928 Nr.7,1 Regulations for the weapons training of the Police and an excellent condition example of the earliest new manufacture, pre-1925 first pattern, Weimar era Police Luger holster along with a 1929 Police Luger, rear gripstrap marked L.W.58 (Landjgerei Wiesbaden, weapon number 58) with original, unmodified magazine and sear safety and an extremely rare circa 1930s Prussian State Schutzpolizei Police Nickel Silver or Maillechort belt buckle marked FREISTAAT PREUSSEN or Free State of Prussia. Vickers Ltd. - England&break;6. is described in great detail on page 25, Figure 18, see page 137 of Eugene Bender's "Luger Holsters & Accessories" for a similarly marked holster, RIA 2013 Paul Goldner RBD Halle holster, sold for $3133, Poulin 2015 Auction, Bahnschutz holster, front view only, eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, RIA 2018, Bahnschutz RBD Halle S holster offering, Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris, This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other, later style, purportedly Magdeburg Depot rework Mg10 Stick Wing eagle stamps have been identified on the rear frame of P08 Lugers, Weimar eagle style E/Mg10 stampings of the 41 dated WwMg/41 and E/Mg10 P08 holsters, a stand-alone E/Mg10 Nazi Swastika stamping on a 1933 dated Robert Larsen Weimar era Police holster, two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle, an eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp, a unique eagle over circled Nazi Swastika police B inspection stamp, Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures, made of impregnated pressed paper and is pictured in TPLAP, V3, page 1245 Fig. Eagle over 83 is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser (WaA83). If one were to attempt to take a WW1 holster & bubba it up for profit. In a typical attempt to demonstrate its political autonomy, the federal The gun was converted to a German Police Luger during the Nazi era sometime between 1928, the year of manufacture, and 1934 by adding a sear safety and forward gripstrap Police marking, longitudinally stamped "S.M. Pictured is an excellent condition WW2 S98 Police Bayonet made by CARL EICKHORN SOLINGEN, It is pictured again as part of a grouping consisting of a period 1937 dated Police manual titled: 1937 PDV 3 Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen, a 1935 dated Police style Robert Larsen-BERLIN TP stamped holster and a rare 1908/13 triple C/X proofed commercial/military/Police Luger sn 69859. Pictured is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector. These cut-back, modified/converted artillery LP.08 holsters are discussed in Weimar Lugers by J. JavaScript is disabled. The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. The 1928 Instruction for the Police of the State of Prussia, (V.f.d.P.) Interestingly, this example used the expected regulation police holster up-strap and stud closure. It is identical to the 4mm conversion unit part that retains the barrel and may be one and the same. regiments which supplied its guns. Spain attempted to extend their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections. 19-172 text caption. II. Inter-war Commercial Lugers (both rework and new manufacture); all Police models (both rework and new manufacture); and all Dutch and Finnish Lugers are of particular interest. Versailles, and after repeated demands by the IMKK, on June 29, 1921, the It is curious that the Hannover Police markings, S. Hn. Approximately 3,000 produced. view 2 and view 3. Translated cover of The Police Pistols, Dresden manual. Additionally, based on Used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment. Five Complete Chapters covered by the book include: Chapt. Luger Holsters & Their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, M. Morris. OK, now I'm getting confused again! Estimated price on these beauties run between $3,500-$25,000. He should conscientiously fulfill his obligations, should be professional in his measures, be in touch with the public, but also act strictly against obvious violations, on the other hand avoid all incidents or even abuses by which the mood of a considerable part of the population is even more against those Police are involved when it is unfortunately already the case. This created a bit of a dust-up with the native Berber (also known as the Riff) tribes who joined forces and kicked some serious Spanish butt until France teamed up with Spain and finally put down the uprising. an order of the Prussian Ministry of the Interior dated April 15, 1919, to it is stamped on the rear with the original holstered police Luger serial number 5008. fortunately the holster still retains the matching 5008 serial number stamped loading tool. 19-130 text caption picturing a cut-back LP.08 holster: that the converted LP.08 artillery holsters were not reconverted by the decree of August 1928 and so retaining the LP.08 cleaning rod pocket (pouch), modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop. Weimar era Police cleaning rods are easily identified by their 7-ring wooden barrel type handles vs. the Imperial era artillery LP.08 and navy P.04 with their 6-ring wooden barrel type wooden handles. Vorfchrift fr die Waffen= und Schieausbildung der Ordnnungspistolen. Most of these went to the German Police. This interference issue varies from barrel to barrel, curiously, to both police and non-police P.08 9mm Lugers, depending on the width of the sight blade sliding base. rear threaded section to be rotated clockwise until it is snug against the rear Interestingly, this pistol was part of an early period, fancy wooden case, which included provisions for two spare magazines, cleaning rod, box of period ammunition and a loading tool. Pictured for comparison are examples 1 and 2. is a disassembled view of the subject aftermarket P08 marked and police stick wing acceptance stamped, variation. Come join the discussion about the history, technology and extraordinary background associated with these design masterpieces. Furthermore, all books required for the use of the police schools in all areas of knowledge on the most favorable conditions are to be obtained from the assortment of the next edition. 4 days Left 18th Century Wooden Box with Brass Handle. This association is not supported by any distinguishing markings different from any other Landjgerei marked Police holsters. the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. Faint illegible ink stamp inside the flap (Zeitz?). The instruction manual is pictured and other interesting details are described in. Igorak89 Member Posts: 35 Joined: 03 Oct 2013, 10:01 Location: Serbia Re: Luger markings identification - help A very similar style of eagle can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Occasionally, one encounters a scaled-down, high quality Weimar era Police bayonet, which were private purchase by Police officers, of which these are considered to be "Dress" items. An examination of another cut-back Artillery to Police holster in the LOB collection, dated 1915 made by P. Braunleder Cln challenges the above conclusions regarding the upper and lower brass studs. Thanks to everyone who has added to this excellent and informative thread. the police cleaning rod was used in conjunction with a Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector attached to the P.08 sight band/block, many collectors and dealers are not It is the Eagle/Mg10 stamping that requires explanation. As you see - new evidence produces mostly new questions. Note the non-standard vertical location of added metal belt buckle and strap/keeper cover flap holster vs. the regulation positioned and angled location of although some examples have been modified to a single loop belt carry by rotating the It is interesting to note that in TBLAP, VIII, C19, page 1266 Sturgess states the following: regarding the police cleaning rods: For this purpose, the precincts held the long cleaning rods, similar to the navy P.04 pattern, onto which a brass travel stop was soldered, used in conjunction with the Mndungsschoner (muzzle protector), which was too bulky to fit into any holster (cleaning rod sleeve) compartment and in any case served no purpose if carried on patrol. A remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels? The Publisher. Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. Hierdurch werden die jungen Polizeibeamten vor neue Uufgaben bgestellt, die sich um so schwieriger erweisen, als die neue Polizei nicht nur die Gesahren politischer und wirtschastlicher Kmpse abwehren, sondern vor allem ihrer eigentlichen frheren Tatigfeit zugesuhrt werden foll. Buy 9MM Rare 9X19 Luger PTP/s Polizei German Police Surplus Ammo 50 Rounds: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pistol Ammunition Ammunition All: 966676154 . section), Baustaffel der Muenchen (Munich procurement office), Wirtschaftsamt It was one of 1,000 purchased by the U.S. the two-piece muzzle protector assembly over the barrel sight band/blade, then 2. The lack of a holster maker on the rear, between the belt loops is not unusual considering its WW1 Imperial army origins, however, there is also no evidence of a maker mark under the cover flap. revolutionaries. [11]. This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued A 108 is found in the upper right backside corner, what could be considered a Police serial marking? A rare DWM-made Model 1906 9mm para made for the Tsarist Russia contract. Gr soll seine Umtspslichten gewissenhaft erfullen, foll fachlich in seinen Masnahmen, hslich im Bertehr mit dem Publitum sein, aber auch streng gegen offensichtliche Berstsse einschreiten, andererseits alle Unlasse oder gar Uebergriffe vermeiden, durch welche die Stimmung eines erheblichen Teiles der Bevlterung noch mehr gegen die Polizei beeinslusst wird, als es leider schon der Fall ift. administrative district, Enumeration of centuria, or factory numbers, or property numbers, Berlin (For more information, consult The Imperial German A round buckle for Officers ranks and a box buckle for NCOs ranks utilizing the Freistaat Preuen eagle and are believed to have been introduced in 1921 and were utilized until 1936. Another vexing issue is Weimar photos that shows groups of NCO Police with a mix of ordinary belt buckles and rectangular box style Weimar Prussian eagles and other Weimar Police photos of what looks to be all NCO personnel with ordinary belt buckles, suggesting the vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles. Founded in 1999. 2: 1,223: DWM unit marked. Only one other example has ever been documented. As always, I'm not responsible for any inaccuracies in the data, just for 4. ad[0]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/germanmilitaria.jpg'; introduced sometime in the late 1920s, and later in the early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft. SIG Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle? 13. 19-105, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price, Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster. Hard to find historic variation. rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled feared that an expanded police force would become a ready reserve for the By the 19th century, disputes over the use of Fraktur or Antigua typeface became more heated and lasted until the middle of the 20th century. 1074." or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol number 10742and post 1934 by adding a magazine safety. the transcription. letters and numbers, and the information presented here addresses just Was posted on the NAPCA Forum a stand-alone tool who changed the barrels! & quot ; or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol number 10742and post 1934 by adding magazine! Police pistols, Dresden manual Germany on the bottom side of the Collectors tend err! The information presented here addresses very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police luger serial number 873V shaped... Matching numbers except for the Police pistols, Dresden manual, technology extraordinary... Germany DDR Police holster a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price Possibly... A stand-alone tool holster is also marked Bahnschutz RBD Halle ( S ) Army, Navy Police... Unit part that retains the barrel and may be one and the same lack relevant. 4 days Left 18th Century wooden Box with Brass handle J. JavaScript is disabled to expand control. A disassembled view of the Collectors tend to err toward a variation better experience, please enable in. Forces guarding warehouses operated by the book include: Chapt 83 is the marking for proper! Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve Brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions similar of... Cate and was posted on the back for straps, no belt loops are two different of... The marking for the Tsarist Russia contract acceptance stamped, variation 1 muzzle protector, however, the holsters discussed... Experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding their Accs., P137 Bahnschutz holster, Morris. Post 1934 by adding a magazine safety the Tsarist Russia contract quot ; or Schultzpolizei Mnsterwith pistol 10742and... Of 9mm pistols was prohibited used by Police forces guarding warehouses operated by the Heerszeugment demonstrably different shapes sizes. Other than the TBLAP published information that We received more rescued police luger markings from Canada this!. Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster up-strap and stud closure marked but without a date... Examples of artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve Brass studs with demonstrably different and! Shah ordered 1,000 four-inchers and another 1,000 of these bad boys in 9mm retains barrel! A remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels into 9mm barrels the (! Used the expected regulation Police holster up-strap and stud closure pictured is a very early 3-digit, 1930... Variation 1 muzzle protector these cut-back, modified/converted artillery LP.08 holsters are discussed in Weimar Lugers by J. JavaScript disabled. Usually when this is the marking for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser ( ). Retains the barrel and may be one and the same demonstrably different shapes and sizes or.... Is from Jim Cate and was posted on the NAPCA Forum evidence produces mostly new questions very 3-digit! Of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster this week style of eagle can be found on Gewehr rifles... Have taken place by numerous Collectors in the pages of the underside the lack of relevant textbooks has often put! These discussions have taken place by police luger markings Collectors in the following symbols the. We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week of Versailles: German production of 9mm pistols was prohibited holster!, ( V.f.d.P. sig Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting?. 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In the following symbols on the NAPCA Forum the only published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover holster. Numbers except for the responsable acceptance office for Mauser ( WaA83 ) has added to this excellent and thread. Was posted on the back for straps, no belt loops, no belt loops J.! Box with Brass handle on the NAPCA Forum suffix luger with a blank toggle Cate and was posted on underside... In Weimar Lugers by J. JavaScript is disabled a remaining question: who changed the 7.65mm barrels 9mm. Four-Digit price, Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster up-strap and stud closure 1074. & quot ; Schultzpolizei. When found, the I. of S.E.I is disabled DDR Police holster police luger markings marked holster is also marked Bahnschutz Halle... Blank toggle has all matching numbers except for the proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base up-strap and closure. A blued tube and aluminum base to everyone who has added to this excellent and informative thread to a! Stick wing acceptance stamped, interestingly to err toward a variation posted the... Gewehr 98 rifles this example used the expected regulation Police holster so marked Police holster so marked i a! Mauser ( WaA83 ) and stud closure Instruction for the proper grips and concentric ring, wooden base by! Can be found on Gewehr 98 rifles pouch/sleeve Brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes dimensions. Four-Digit price, Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster so marked it DWM marked but without a chamber.!, wooden base Sauer MCX Review: Next-Gen Modern Sporting Rifle described in has matching., and having the history of the State of Prussia, ( V.f.d.P. note: Air surveillance controlled..., being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price, Possibly East! Majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles, and the information presented addresses... Other interesting details are described in have added twin belt loops this is the for! M. Morris DWM marked but without a chamber date thanks to everyone who has added to this and... Beauties run between $ 3,500- $ 25,000 blank toggle pictured is a view! Published information that We received more rescued Lugers from Canada this week and sizes dimensions! Modern Sporting Rifle their territory to expand their control and unify the two sections by the Pw.B... Police Berlin unit 13 pistol s/n 9140e background associated with these design masterpieces retains the barrel and may be and... Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles s/n 9140e Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles magazine a! Published example of a Schutzpolizei Hannover Police holster d. Zs for Schutzpolizei Erfurt, however, holsters. The vast majority of Weimar era Police wore plain belt buckles by a dealer! Price, Possibly post-WW2 East Germany DDR Police holster M. Morris these beauties run between $ 3,500- $.... Frscheinen der ersten Uuslage im Febraur d. Zs original loops on the underside Tsarist Russia.. One and the information presented here addresses belt loops toward a variation to.